Dr. Josh Mulvihill: One of the key methods in Scripture that God gives to grandparents is sharing your testimony, talking about the work of God, the glorious deeds.
John Fuller: That’s Dr. Josh Mulvihill, and he’s our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, offering encouragement to grandparents. It’s a wonderful season. Josh is gonna talk about how you can make the most of it. I’m John Fuller, and thanks for joining us.
Jim Daly: John, a few weeks ago, Jean, my wife, floored me. She said since she was 15, she wanted to be a grandmother.
John: Oh, my.
Jim: I’m like, “What? We got a few paces to go in between there.” But she just loves the concept. We’re not grandparents yet. And, uh, the boys, neither of them are married. So we’re gonna do this in the right order, I hope and pray. But the idea of grandparenting, that seed was put into her heart-
John: All those years ago.
Jim: All those years ago.
John: Hm.
Jim: And she’s excited about it. And I’m looking forward to this discussion because I probably gotta catch up, right? I’m like the caboose-
John: (laughs)
Jim: … in Jean’s grandparenting train, and, uh, I’ve gotta get that perspective. And we’re gonna have a great discussion with our guest today. And, uh, he’s done a PhD dissertation in grandparenting.
John: Mm-hmm. And I think it’s gonna connect- this content will connect with you. Uh, we have so many grandparents that listen in and want to help, uh, their kids, raise their kids in spiritual formation-
Jim: Ooh, be careful.
John: … and having great insights. Dr. Mulvihill, as you said, uh, did his PhD in family ministry and that dissertation on grandparenting. Uh, he served as a pastor for nearly two decades, and is the founding member for the Legacy Coalition. Uh, Josh and Jen have five children, and he’s written a number of books. Today we’re dialing in, uh, to the one called, Grandparenting: Strengthening Your Family and Passing on Your Faith. You can learn more about our guest and this resource on our website. The link is at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
Jim: Josh, it’s great to have you with us for the first time here at Focus.
Josh: Great to be here, guys.
Jim: Now, I’m dying to ask you this question.
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: So, working on a PhD, that’s a lot of work. I mean, you concentrate, there’s people that do a PhD in poisonous frogs of the Brazilian jungle. How did you come up with, “I wanna do a dissertation on grandparenting”?
Josh: Well, I decided I didn’t want my dissertation to be a footnote, and I wanted something that would truly be, um, helpful for a lot of people. And, uh, as I was going through coursework at Southern, kinda, my eyes got opened- got opened to my eyes. I was reading something and came across this grandparenting topic, and I thought, “Huh, I wonder what’s out there on Christian grandparenting.” So I went and asked my professors, Timothy Paul Jones, said, “Do you know, can you point me in the direction of, you know, what’s out- where- where- what would be the stuff that I would read if I wanna learn about this?” And he said, “I actually don’t know. Why don’t you look into it, and come back and let me know?” And I- you know, I expected, similar to parenting, Christian parenting, there would be a-
Jim: Like volumes.
Josh: Yeah. Mountains. Uh, think about- I mean, just think about how many Christian grandparents there are. There’s, we guess, roughly around 30 million Christian grandparents in America alone. There’s gotta be some really helpful stuff for those people. And I was shocked to see how little there was. You guys know in the publishing world, you’re never supposed to say there’s nothing out there on it.
Jim: Yeah. There’s some stuff, but thin.
Josh: And there wa- there was- yeah. There was, uh, very little though.
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: Handful of books.
Jim: Let me ask you this. Uh, so this is a common cliche that I love, uh, that grandparents and grandchildren love each other so much because they have a common enemy, their adult children. (laughs)
Josh: Yeah. The parents. Yeah.
Jim: But that’s probably not the best way to go into the grandparenting effort.
Josh: Ideally. No-
Jim: (laughs).
Josh: … not- not really.
Jim: The, uh, the study that you cited, I think in your research, uh, it found that grandchildren, say their grandparents play a significant role-
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: … in their formation. Describe that study and what caught your attention.
Josh: So there was a Barna study that asked 602 teenagers, who is the most influential people in your life, uh, other than parents, uh, number one-
Jim: Parents tend to be number one.
Josh: Yep. Parents-
Jim: Which is amazing. That’s great.
Josh: Yeah, which is great. Yeah. Congrats, parents. Um, and, you know, if you think in your head, who would be the number two, three, you know, down that list? Many of us think of peers or, uh, teachers. And, of course, those are big, big influences. Uh, but what Barna found was that typically it’s other family members. Most of the time, that would be grandparents is number two. And then it goes teachers and coaches, then peers, and then pastors and religious leaders.
And, um, as I’m kind of trying to make sense of this study, my interpretation is simply this, it comes down to time that individuals have with a child. And you think about all those- all those individuals I mentioned, who has the greatest amount of time with children from birth through adulthood? You know, teachers are incredibly impactful, but they typically have a season, you know, a year, a few years. And that- same with coaches, uh, and even pastors. I, was a pastor for 20 years. Uh, I still have relationships with many individuals that, you know, from a long time ago. Uh, but grandparents have the opportunity to have a presence in a- in a person’s life, from birth all the way to adulthood. And there’s nobody else like that usually other than parents. And so I call it “potential influence” because grandparents sometimes don’t step into that.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Well, that’s what I was gonna ask you. I thought another research data point that you, uh, mentioned in the book is about 25- if I read it correctly, only 25% of grandparents will share the gospel with their grandchildren.
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: These are Christian, obviously.
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: But I was shocked by that.
Josh: I was too. Yeah.
Jim: And I was trying to figure out, Jean and I were talking about it early this morning, as I was reading the book and taking a look at the prep.
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But I was thinking, “What would prevent a grandparent from doing that?
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That the adult children have said, “Hey, we don’t want you to do that.” I mean, that may be one reason.
Jim: What- what did you find in that study? What-
Josh: Yeah, some grandparents, uh, some of them were, uh, making the assumption that the gospel was being communicated at at a grandchild’s church-
Jim: Okay. All right.
Josh: … or home. And so they’re- you know, they weren’t needed in that way. Um, and tot- you know, understandable in that regard. Um, some didn’t have the freedom to do that.
Jim: Right.
Josh: Were literally told by adult children, “You’re not allowed to have this kind of conversation.”
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Josh: Uh, and some, uh, just did not have that priority in their life, and it didn’t translate into those kinds of conversations. And so, even my dad … It was interesting, my parents were super intentional parents, and he, you know, he- his mindset was, “I’m gonna be a really good Christian example. Uh, you know, I wanna live a godly life, but we’re gonna send grandchildren home to parents to do the core work, and include sharing the gospel.” Uh, and, you know, grandparents have a critical component. So every grandparent listening, um, you know, take those opportunities to share the gospel with grandchildren.
Jim: Well, yeah. I was gonna say, let’s pry into that a little bit-
Dr. Mulvihill: Yeah.
Jim: … so I don’t miss asking the question that grandparents are saying, “Jim, ask that question!” How do you navigate that? Let’s just say, okay, we, as grandma and grandpa, we wanna make sure little Johnny and Mary hear the gospel. Do you go talk to your adult children, and say, “Hey, are you guys okay with this?” So you get permission? Or do you just move through it and make the assumption they’re not getting that straightforward kind of presentation and- and encourage them to, “Yeah, go for it.” Unless the kids are saying, “Hey, we don’t want you to do that,” but I’d be a sneaky grandpa.
John: (laughs).
Josh: (laughs)
Jim: Okay. (laughs)
Josh: Oh man. Yeah, but-
Jim: But now we’re into it.
Josh: Now you’re into it. Yeah. So I- in some situations, I think it’s wise to have that conversation with an adult child. If there’s- you know, you’re truly unsure, will this have very significant ramifications? And, um, I think as- if grandchildren come into your world, into your home, there’s greater opportunity and freedom, uh, put out … You know, there’s alo- so many good gospel resources. Buy one, put one out on the, uh, coffee table and grandchild picks it up, and, “Read-
Jim: yeah.
Josh: “… read this story for me, Grandma and Grandpa,” and boom, you’ve got a gospel opportunity. You can turn on music in the car. But yeah, I think in general, the, I- sharing the gospel should kind of be just a part of what is happening.
Jim: And I wanna be careful. You know, I’ll say this, knowing circumstances are unique in every family structure-
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: … And I get that. But if an adult child is- has that reservation, there may be something you need to see about your own approach in life-
Josh: Mm-hmm. Yes.
Jim: … that’s been very aggressive, or those adult children experience that as you as a parent.
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Now you’re a grandparent. They’re going, “Man, I don’t need a flamethrower. I need loving gospel expression.”
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: So first of all, look in the mirror and make sure that you can deliver that and be kind and loving and winsome in how you discuss it.
Josh: Mm-hmm. A lot of it comes back to relationship, right?
Jim: Yeah. (laughs)
Josh: I mean, is that what you guys have experienced with your kids?
Jim: Oh, totally. Oh, yeah.
Josh: Like, how the relationship goes, there are a lot of opportunities as a result-
Jim: yeah.
Josh: … if there’s tension there.
Jim: It’s all about relationship.
Josh: Yeah.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I hadn’t planned on asking you this, and although it’s gonna sound like a political context, I don’t mean it that way, but so many people today in academia particularly are saying, “Yeah, the nuclear family is a Western-built thing. It was never the way it was.” When I’m reading scripture, I’m reading what you’re saying-
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: … a son’s son. Okay. That’s a grandparent. Fathers, instruct your children.
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: So the- is the nuclear family some kind of western construct, or is it something that’s biblical, two, three, 4,000 years old?
Josh: Well, it’s a both and, right? Um, in the sense that, you know, the church thinks in terms of immediate family, parent, and child, and that certainly is a- God’s institution in the home.
Jim: That’s called the family.
Josh: Yeah. The family.
Jim: (laughs)
Josh: But, uh, there’s also extended family in the Bible.
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: And if we define family really narrowly in the sense of just immediate family, what happens to grandparents is they become a non-essential extra for the family that they’re nice to have, they’re not needed to have. So yeah, I think there is a little bit of distortion going on with how we understand … If we understand family only as parent and child, then grandparents are on the periphery, and they don’t actually get to engage in any significant way.
Jim: Yeah. And I’ve never- I mean, it’s, yeah, a- a man shall leave his mother and father and cleave to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. That- that’s the nuclear family with the extension of grandparents.
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: I mean, it’s- it’s not new. It’s in the Old Testament. So we’re looking at three to 5,000 years that this has been occurring. And it seems reasonable. I would think as a scholar, the- the idea there and that separation by distance is- is part of modernity. I mean-
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: … traveling to New York, and you grew up in Utah, that’s just part of it. You work in New York or wherever you work, and you’re 3000 miles away from your- your extended family.
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: That’s the difference.
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: So you’re not as integrated. You’re not in the same village. You’re not passing a home down from one to the next in most cases. So I just publicly wanna make sure we get that point across.
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: You share a story about a woman named Patt. With two Ts, by the way.
Josh: Mm-hmm.
John: Mm-hmm, yeah I saw that. Yeah.
Jim: I like that, Patt.
Josh: (laughs)
Jim: And, uh, her granddaughter was struggling in her faith. And what did Patt do as an example of what a good grandmother can do?
Josh: Well, let me read- I’m just gonna share this text that Patt got from her granddaughter, to give you a sense of the impact that grandmother had on her granddaughter. And so, let me just read this for you. So Patt received this from her- her teenage granddaughter. So, “I’ve learned more about how to be a Christian by watching how you live your- your life, the way you pursue a life that reflects Christ in every way, whether that be through your marriage or simply talking to a man in a restaurant. For 17 years, I’ve watched you share the gospel shamelessly and point our family towards Him. In every situation, good and bad I’ve ever been in, you’ve reminded me that it’s not about me, and that I serve a God that has a plan for me that ultimately leads to Him. The day we spent going around to different landmarks, reading that book is what I attribute to the beginning of my spiritual journey. You showed me that following Him is what matters.
I- this is- wow.
Jim: Boom.
Josh: Hats off to Patt. Uh, she was attuned to her granddaughter struggling in her faith, and intentionally decided to invest, made herself available. And I think every grandparent has the opportunity to do what Patt did here. You know, we can- we can be intentional, and we can be available. And the impact of a godly life on a grandchild over the years, they’re- they’re watching us.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
Josh: And that is a strong apologetic for Jesus Christ. And you know, there’s, there’s a couple of, like, key phrases I want grandparents to walk away from today’s broadcast with, uh, it’s grandparents matter. Uh, I think our culture under undervalues grandparents. And one- ones from this here, uh, that’s moving from Christian grandparenting to intentional Christian grandparents.
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: And if you- if you as a grandparent are willing to do that, to go from Christian grandparenting to intentional Christian grandparenting like Patt did here, I think God will utilize that and bless that. And, uh, just, uh, what a great example.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Mm-hmm.
John: Those are great words to hear from Dr. Josh Mulvihill. And we’re so glad to have you, uh, listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. You can get Josh’s book, Grandparenting: Strengthening Your Family and Passing on Your Faith, uh, at our website, and that’s focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
And Josh, uh, in addition to your actions, there are opportunities for words. And you had a really wonderful story about your dad sharing his testimony with one of your kids.
Josh: Mm-hmm.
John: Tell us that story, because is- it’s very touching.
Josh: One of the key methods in scripture that God gives to grandparents is sharing your testimony, talking about the work of God, the glorious deeds. And so I think it’s a great opportunity, and you mentioned with my dad, uh, he took the opportunity, he went to Granddads and Lads at a camp about two hours from where we live. And when his grandsons are kind of in that 10, 11-year-old age range, he brings him for a weekend and- and he builds in, uh, sharing his testimony. So he types it out on a page, gives it to ’em, and during the two-hour car ride, uh, talks about how he came to faith in college through his, uh, track, cross-country, um, teammate, and how that just transformed his life. And it was so funny coming home, you know, John, my, uh, he’s now 12, uh, so this was not too long ago. He, uh, says, you know, “Dad, um, it is great to hear how grandpa came to faith in Christ. You know, he talked for a really long time.”
Jim: (laughs).
Josh: But I- I’ll tell you what, all three of my sons have that piece of paper up in their room, and I- they will cherish that for the rest of their life. And it- you know, it’s one of God’s methods to build faith. Uh, our- you know, our stories, uh, that we have just conversion story, how God’s been faithful to us, uh, those aren’t the point. Our- you know, our- it’s not us, it’s the pointer to make much of who God is. And, um, and our culture has done the exact opposite. It’s taken something that God has meant for good and used it for evil. That’s what deconstruction stories are, their personal testimonies of walking away from Christ to destroy faith. God’s built that in- in a testimony kind of component to build faith.
And man, you read this all over, especially the Old Testament, about tell of the glorious deeds of the Lord and his might and the wonders he has done to the next generation. And what it does is, as like my dad did with my son, it helps our kids, our grandkids, have this great view of a grand God that, um, there is no rival, there is no alternative. And, uh, and he’s a God that they can trust and put their faith in. And, um, so yeah, man, use your testimony. Uh, if you’ve never done that, God’s given it as one of the tools in your tool belt. And man, you could write it down and give it or build it into a family gathering at Thanksgiving or Christmas, or when you have an opportunity doing, you know, fishing or baking or driving, you know, build that in. And, uh-
Jim: I hear John, your son saying, “But make it Chrisp.”
John: (laughs)
Dr. Mulvihill: But make it Chrisp.
Jim: Get to the point, Grandpa.
Dr. Mulvihill: Doesn’t need to be an hour, yeah.
Jim: I like that. (laughs) It’s always good for us older folk to remember that.
Josh: Make it Chrisp.
Jim: Let me ask you, uh, your mom passed away before you had kids and she had grandkids, and sorry for that. I lost my mom when I was nine, so I can-
Josh: You can- yeah.
Jim: … feel that pain. But in that context, a good friend of mine, uh, encouraged me to do videos for Jean and for my boys, and then something generic for potential grandkids if something should happen to me. He had done this. But speak to the power of that, ’cause your mom. You guys did something similar, correct?
Josh: Yeah, I was 29 when my mom was diagnosed with ALS. We thought she’d have a longer time. It was really quick. Only ended up being six months.
Jim: It’s a terrible disease.
Josh: Yes. Horrible.
Jim: Sorry.
Josh: Um, but I- you know, I had a one-year-old at the time and, um, realized, “Well, my kids aren’t gonna be around- or my mom’s not gonna be around to know my kids and share all of her wisdom and her faith with them.” So, um, I just took two weeks to spend time with my mom. And sat at her feet, asked her all kinds of questions that I could think of, and recorded them.
Jim: That’s great.
Josh: Not only how she came to faith, but uh, you know, “What are your- what are your favorite hymns? What are your favorite Bible verses? How- you know, when- when you pray, what do you pray about? Just everything I could think of.” And we recorded that. And, um, we have a small little booklet that we put all that together and, you know, pass it out to all of our family, our grandkids, uh, and nephews, they all have that. They can know their grandmother a little. It’s definitely not nearly as wonderful as having her in person. But that is- you know, that’s a testimony on steroids, I guess. Um-
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: … to have. And I now, as a son, look back at that and I am just, it’s just a joy. And it’s such a wonderful thing to just see my mom’s faith, and the legacy that she has through that. So, uh, there’s just so many ways we can build those kinds of tools into our family. You know, we just- you just mentioned two right there that we’ve done with our-
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: … with our kid. Yeah.
Jim: Which I think is great. You know, a- a question that I didn’t anticipate asking you, but I think it’s good to you, Jean’s mom and dad were not believers.
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Uh, but we spent a lot of time with them, especially during Christmas and other breaks, summer breaks, things like that. And they lived far away, so we had to fly and-
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: But we’d stay there, and they were warm and loving-
Josh: Yeah.
Jim: … people. But, um, you know, we would talk pretty openly about the distinction between what they believe, what we believe with our kids, not with them all sitting at the table, but how would you suggest approaching that kind of situation where maybe, uh, the grandparents are not believers-
Josh: Mm-hmm.
Jim: … and you are, and you take your kids into that environment. Do you coach ’em up, do you talk about that openly, or do you hold that for a while?
Josh: My grandparents on one set, I don’t believe were ever Christians, so-
Jim: Yeah, so you experienced it.
Josh: I lived- I lived that reality.
Jim: Yeah, uh-huh.
Josh: And at times, there were challenges as our family was walking and living out their Christian faith. And I’ll tell you, as a grandchild, I had a lot more freedom to speak truth and share the gospel with my grandparents. And I did-
Jim: yeah.
Josh: Espec- especially as I got older.
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: Um, loved my grandparents. Um, we would spend a lot of time playing cards with them, and we would get in conversations about their beliefs and our beliefs, and we would tell ’em why we believe what we believed. And, uh, we would, you know, we’d have those kinds of con … so we, as you said, we’d loved the warmth and the relationship and valued that. And- and I encourage to maintain that, build that. Uh, that becomes a bridge to share the gospel and to communicate truth.
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: It doesn’t need to be with a hammer, but as they’re- we’re in relationships, you know, the truth comes as part of that package. And- (laughs)
Jim: Yeah. And grandkids can be very, you know, surprisingly blunt. “Grandma, why don’t you believe in Jesus?”
Josh: Yeah.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: Boom. Waaaa. (laughs)
Josh: There may need to be some boundaries, though.
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: Depending on their, you know, how, you know, open their-
Jim: It’s hard to say no to a five-year-old that asks that question, though. It’s like, “Uh, I just don’t believe the same way.” But it- I- I hear what you’re saying. Like, let it roll, and- and then just shore it up where you need to, which is good. Let me ask you about your dad. So your mom passed away, and he remarried. Um, that can be kind of delicate as well. And I’m sure there’s many people in the audience that have done that. Um, and that’s a good thing. It’s a biblical thing. It’s not anti-biblical to remarry after your spouse has passed away. But it can kind of be unusual for the grandkids, because they don’t know, “Okay, who’s this new person, and what do we call her?” What were some of the things that you had to deal with and overcome?
Josh: So death has been one of the challenges in our grandparenting journey with our family. And, you know, one of the surprises, and put that in the didn’t-expect-that-to-happen box for Josh. Uh, when my dad was dating Pam, they came and said, “Hey, would you officiate our wedding?”
Jim: Oh.
Josh: So, uh, I said, “Sure-”
Jim: (laughs)
Josh: “… but I- I’m not gonna do your premarital counseling.”
Jim: (laughs)
John: (laughs)
Josh: That’s like- that’s like a little too too weird there. Um-
Jim: That’s a good thing.
Josh: But I-
Jim: That’s wisdom.
Josh: … but I- it was- it was a blessing, but also, “Wow, I can’t believe I’m standing here in front of my dad and officiating this- you know, this experience is happening, and here we go. Saddle up.”
Uh, one of the biggest challenges we had, uh, as you mentioned, Jim, was, you know, what- what do we call Pam and what role does she have? And I think for Pam, there might’ve been some hurt feelings on the front end just trying to navigate that, and that- you know, that was our fault not doing a great job maybe on the front end. Pam’s been so gracious, and she’s been God’s gift to our family. Uh, blended family, anybody that’s gone through that, I did that as a young adult, it’s hard. It’s not easy. It’s not microwave, it’s Crock-Pot and a lot of grace and a lot of forgiveness and a lot of, uh, bearing with is necessary or … uh, I, the way I think about it today is there was pre-Jane Mulvihill, my mom, and there’s post-Jane Mulvihill. And when my mom died, life was never going to be the same as an in an extended family situation, and we just had to let go.
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: We had to release, and we had to be open to accepting this is just a new day, it is a new normal, we’re gonna have new traditions, we’re gonna have new everything. It’s a blank slate. We need to let Pam speak into some of what that looks like. She’s bringing things in. Uh, we can speak into some preferences. And, uh, God’s been gracious and blessed that, and, uh, we, you know, continue through God’s grace to grow. And, but now we’re- I don’t know, we’re 12 plus years in, and, um, we’re at a different place, a good place-
Jim: Yeah.
Josh: … and just part of our world now.
John: Mm-hmm. I appreciate that. And, and you’ve mentioned earlier, Josh, about the importance of being intentional. You made it very practical in terms of intentional questions. I loved the perspective on meals. Uh, grandparents, rather than let meals be something that is chaos that you get through, instead, lean in, give some encouragement on that.
Josh: Meals have been outsourced to others. So we have a lot of family surrogates in our society. And you just think about Sunday dinner at grandma’s house and all the- just think of you walking into your grandparents’ house, all the smells and the special things that happened around food. And I think it’s a missed opportunity for a lot of families today, a lot of grandparents today that they have essentially, uh, not been more intentional with the meal side of things.
John: Yeah.
Josh: And many grandparents have told me that they find it challenging because it’s just- it is chaos. Grand- especially young ones come in, essentially destroy the house, you know, (laughs) and- and then leave. Um, you know, I had one set of grandparents tell me, “We only bought a table that seats two on purpose. They- we literally-”
John: (laughs).
Jim: (laughs).
Josh: “… can’t seat.” Uh, but I will say, you know, food is a secret weapon for families in the sense of good food draws people in. In the day that we live in today, there’s so many allergies and food diet preferences, and, you know, all those things. And I just think it’s an opportunity, it’s a giving season for grandparents to say, “We’re gonna be as accommodating as possible.” Uh, you know, if we make food a battleground or aren’t very accommodating, it is going to impact our families coming over. So that whole food thing’s a biggie.
Jim: Oh, yeah.
Josh: And, you know, find out what your family loves. Open fridge policy, stock it. Do what you can to- to lure them in with food and be super accommodating.
John: Mm-hmm. I love that.
Jim: Well, one of the things here, I mean, you look at that research and how much value transmission occurs at the table. And Jean, I always applaud her whenever I can here because she did a great job. Mealtime was steady and always at 6:00-ish.
John: Mm.
Jim: And, you know, we’d sit there for an hour, hour and a half with our two boys and just have great conversations and eat a good meal. And that’s something, you’re right. Uh, not even just grandparents, but parents being-
John: Yeah.
Jim: … able to create that environment, it’s so critical. And so much of what you want to see your children become will be grown at that time.
John: Mm-hmm.
Jim: It’s not the busyness of the day you’re gonna get that kind of interaction. It’s at the dinner table-
John: At the dinner table.
Jim: … where you can actually sit and talk and enjoy one another’s company. Josh, thanks again for being with us. This is really good stuff.
Josh: Appreciate that I had the opportunity to be here, guys.
Jim: Well, as we talked about today, uh, grandparents play such an important role in the lives of their grandchildren. And to those of you listening who are in that stage of life, I wanna encourage you to make the most of your opportunity to build a multi-generational legacy of faith in your family. And we want to help you to do that. One great resource for getting started is Josh’s book, Grandparenting: Strengthening Your Family and Passing on Your Faith. He has so many practical tips for grandparents that we didn’t even have time to cover today.
If you make a gift to Focus on the Family for any amount, uh, we’ll send you a copy of Josh’s book to say thank you for being a partner in ministry. Your donations are so important for us to keep helping families, especially right now all around us. The culture is attacking the biblical family structure and our work supporting families, saving marriages, and speaking up for the pre-born is more important than ever.
We have some exciting new projects we’re working on, like Truth Rising, it’s a free documentary that you can download from YouTube about turning the cultural tide back toward God. But we can’t do this without you. So be a part of the ministry.
John: Mm-hmm. Make a one-time gift as you can, or if you’re able to join the Friends of the Family program through a monthly pledge, we’d be so grateful. And, uh, you can make that donation and get Dr. Josh Mulvihill’s book, uh, when you call 800 the letter A and the word FAMILY, 800-232-6459. Or, of course, online, you can make that donation and get the book at focusonthefamily.com/broadcast.
On behalf of the entire team, thanks for joining us for Focus on The Family with Jim Daly. I’m John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
